Wednesday, 23 April 2014

Conversations With Muslims (6)

A Muslim on Community Cohesion & Diversity

You need help mate. This article is a lie.” - Waheed

How on earth can an entire article be a lie?

“Are you deliberately lying to cause trouble and hatred towards Islam? Or do you actually believe what you have written?” - Waheed

Yes and yes.

“What makes you think Allah Akbar is a war cry? It means God is Great.” - Waheed
I know what it means and it is invariably the cry thousands, if not millions, of Muslims have made when they have slaughtered people. This gives me a good reason to believe that it goes along with death and murder.

You keep on using the word ‘lie’ when all you really mean is that I disagree with you, as do millions upon millions of other kuffar.

“You are the cause of trouble in this country and cause a major divide between communities. It is clear that you are just preudice against Islam so I am interested to know why this is.” - Waheed

Are you as concerned with the ‘divides’ in Muslim countries? Are you concerned with the massive and systematic persecution and killing of thousands of non-Muslims in Pakistan, Somalia, the Sudan, Egypt and virtually every other Muslim country? Are you concerned about all that too? Or are you using the language of the West, ‘divide between communities’, as a deceitful attempt simply to advance Islam and your own people? You use the language of your Western defenders simply for your own ends. Muslims don’t use such language in Muslim countries and they won’t use that language in the UK if they became the majority.

How Muslims Use the Words “Proof”, “Evidence” and “Truth”

"PS A sensible person would draw conclusions based upon logic and evidence and not just what some people have said without any proof. God gave you a brain and a heart so use them. If you want to ask me anything about Islam then feel free." - Waheed

I love your use of the words 'logic', 'proof', and 'evidence' - all terms which have virtually no purchase in Islam except within an Islamic context. That is, when you say 'logic', you mean 'Islamic logic' or reasoning that fits into Islam. By 'proof' you mean 'Islamic proof'. By 'evidence' you mean 'Islamic evidence'.

The word 'proof' is frequently misused by Muslims. There is no proof outside logic and mathematics. Not even in science. All it means, to Muslims, is one bit of Islam proves another bit - meaning that it backs that bit up. That is, some proof that the Koran says X. Logic is utterly different in the West; and it's strange that you seem not to be aware of that.

Basically, our languages are diametrically opposed and they are so because you are a Muslim. You use all these pseudo-philosophical and even quasi-scientific terms in an utterly Islamic way. This means that we will ultimately talk passed each other. In a sense, you must know and agree with that statement.

Every Muslim I have debated with, from a person who can hardly string a sentence together to educated ones, always use these terms: 'logic', 'truth' 'proof' and so on. It all sounds so impressive until you realise that all these words mean something else in Islam and when uttered by a Muslim attempting to defend Islam.

You prove my point yet again.

I said that 'evidence', when used by most Muslims, is when one bit of Islamic theology, or a text, provides evidence for another bit. The same with proof. And then you go ahead and do exactly what I say by referring to the Koran to back up another piece of the Koran.

We speak different languages. That's why Muslims have been at war with the West for so long. Judging by your use of language, your Islamic world-view, and your abuse, that's not going to change any time soon.

There is no 'Islamic science' either; although there has been science as practiced by a few (comparatively speaking) Muslims. As soon as you refer to the Koran, everything you say is non-scientific and even anti-scientific. The fact that you refer to it as 'science' means nothing to me, just as with Islamic 'truth', Islamic 'proof', Islamic 'justice', Islamic 'rights', etc. All these things mean something different to their common meanings in the West. (Although in the West there is disagreement rather than the massive homogeneity in the Muslim world - on Islam and so much else.)

So you keep on preaching Islam and I will keep on criticising its bullshit. 

Please stop using the word 'truth'. All religious zealots and fundamentalists use that word and do so very easily and often. All it means is WHAT CONCURS WITH THEIR CHOSEN RELIGION. You aren't using the word in a philosophical or non-religious sense. What is 'true' is what Islam says is true. That's all you mean by 'truth'.

On the Egg-shaped World


"Almost any Western educated Muslim you come across will firmly believe that the Qur'an unequivocally states that the Earth is shaped like an egg (to be precise, like an ostrich egg).” - Waheed

They will evince some embarrassment that their less educated Muslim brothers believe the Revelation states the Qur'an is flat. But it is those "less educated" Muslims who are in fact nearer the truth.

"The verse that many believe refers to an egg is surah 79, verse 30. Let's look at some translations....” - Waheed

Waheed, if you think I'm going to get into a debate between various Islamic theologians' versions of the shape of the earth, you must be joking! It's all bullshit. So one bullshit claim can't be compared to another bullshit claim - unless it's more obviously bullshit than the other.

To debate within Islamic theology would be a tacit acceptance of Islam. Thus I don't care one ounce of shit what Islamic theologians or 'scholars' say on this matter - it's all still within Islam.

A Muslim Doing What Muslims Do Best - Lie

"Please note that Muslims are not going around burning Churches or insulting Christianity but EDL are burning mosques and insulting Islam, so who is really the one in the wrong." - Waheed

What an incredible lie! But, of course, Muslims are allowed to lie for Islam. It's the only religion I know in which lying is praised and encouraged - both in the Koran and by Muhammad.

To say that Muslims aren't burning churches - when in contemporary Pakistan alone this has happened numerous times - shows that you aren't even concerned with what's actually happening: you're concerned with furthering Islam.

You talk about Islam being the fastest growing religion. If a religion has death for apostasy, forced conversion, and sharia blasphemy law that prohibits all criticism of any aspect of Islam, and that Islam has been cocooned from criticism for 1,400 years (that's why you hate this blog!), then that's not that surprising.

Tell me, do you know the figures for people leaving Islam? There are many who do so but they can't broadcast it for fear of being killed by pious Muslims like yourself.

Doing the Dawah

Why are conversing with me at all? Are you doing dawah? That is, no matter how much of an 'evil kuffar' you think I am, or this blog is, you will still do the dawah because in Islam that means that it will pay dividends in Islamic Paradise. You may have some extra virgins or houris to have sex with or something. And because you can't kill or silence me (which is what Muslims usually do in the Muslim world and here too), you do the dawah instead.

This debate is pointless. It's like having a conversation with a rock. Do your dawah elsewhere and don't bother me with it. I'm not going to let you use my space for dawah so that you can have extra virgins in Paradise.

In fact I have given you more time than any Muslim/Islamic website or blog has ever given me. As I said, Islam usually relies or the killing or the legal silencing of all its critics. No wonder Islam has survived so long.

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